"There’s no doubt that losing weight with our modern lifestyles would be difficult. However, the answer to these forms of adversity is not to reach for pharmaceutical means of weight-loss."
You don't say! If we take a look around at the plant and animal kingdoms, it is possible to observe that certain life-forms do well in certain environments and with certain diets. Is there any life-form on earth that does well in an environment loaded with toxins and a diet of industrial processed and ultra-processed (I like simply 'adulterated') "foods"?
As I think you implied, there is only so much of this mess ('modern lifestyles') that we can fix. Still, most people could do better by just eating food instead of industrial glop. But it wouldn't be as cheap or convenient. (Related to "quick fix".)
I have struggled with weight gain most of my life. I have had to discover a number of different factors that were contributing to the problem, consumption of industrial glop (A.K.A. "food-like substances") being the most important one. About two years ago I found a combination of dietary and other adjustments that brought my weight down and kept it down without creating any major new problems. Finally! And keeping my older clothes really paid off.
Except that now I am underweight, for the first time in my life. Where does it end?
So I don't know any simple solution either. Popping pills sure isn't it. In fact I discovered something that surprised even the doctor that I work with (on a cash basis -- no interference from insurance companies). Five years ago I let myself be fooled into thinking that a certain genetic condition I inherited, that causes high LDL-C and super-high LP(a), was risky enough that I should try taking pharmaceuticals to lower cholesterol.
I won't go into details here about what I took, but around the same time, out of common sense, I adjusted my diet back to a reduced carbohydrate one that had worked previously but had created major new problems. By this time I knew the cause of those new problems (involving a birth defect) and I was able to compensate and avoid them. I also knew how much evidence there was for lowered cholesterol preventing heart attacks (I do also have heart disease), and losing excess weight made so much more sense to me. The cardiologist was uninterested in that. (He eventually removed himself from my life by wasting an appointment where he tried rather hard to persuade me to "get the shots". That's the last I ever had anything to do with him. Contraindications, what are those anyway? Fortunately, I knew them well.)
The result of this diet, that worked so well before? Nothing. Weight steady, and significantly overweight. It took three more years and a miracle to learn what was wrong. It was the cholesterol-lowering drugs. Working with my doctor, I had learned that the hereditary problem I have was not the death sentence that the industry would like us to believe, and that its risk did not correlate with cholesterol levels. So I dumped the drugs. The miracle was learning that they could prevent weight loss. And the diet started working. Over the next year, I lost the excess weight and moved into my ideal range. But then another 5 pounds below that, before it leveled off. And then another 5 pounds suddenly lower a few weeks when something got me that I couldn't identify (it has passed).
I have regained that last 5 pounds, and will be back in my ideal range soon. (I can identify 'ideal' by how I feel.) My doctor is providing information about what else I need to do about aging and muscle loss (the likely cause of my underweight). He's seen this work before. There is no pill for it. It involves exercise. I have problems with exercise because of an endocrine disorder (quite possibly iatrogenic), but there are still ways to make it work. No, it's not as convenient as popping a pill, but it actually works and isn't poisonous. That should be worth something.
As I have now said numerous times in numerous places on Substack and elsewhere, I have a view of life -- all life -- as having been designed and created. Each life-form has its particular design requirements. Violate those and you've got trouble. Pay attention to creation and creator and you are apt to do well, even if physical life is less than perfect. That is my view, and others can believe as they wish. It may not make sense to some, but popping pills to lose weight makes absolutely no sense to me.
My argument was around the idea that most foods we come across will be processed/packaged rather than whole foods, so modern eating habits are inherently an uphill battle given these circumstances. These treatments may work for some but it shouldn't be the immediate approach, especially when people still have a completely unhealthy relationship with food. And so it's a lack of perspective that is likely a key player here. Someone who loses weight but is not cognizant that the foods and lifestyles they held previously were the main drivers may go back to these habits thinking that they have it managed.
At the end of the day, I wouldn't be much to provide anecdotal evidence since my diet could be better, but having an understanding of what's good and what's not is important rather than just eating to feel satiated.
Also, thanks for sharing your story! Plenty of factors are at play and it's understandable why weight loss and getting healthy can differ between people. I think having a better understanding of our bodies should help.
Just a few points, these drugs are injected daily or weekly and cost several hundred dollars per month. They are violently expensive. I don’t actually believe that there are these shortages, I think that the makers are falsely causing the shortages to drum up hype and demand. There is no reason that they can’t make enough for everyone who would benefit from it and at a reasonable cost. This is a major marketing ploy!! Don’t fall for it
With Ozempic I believe it's around 1k so these definitely aren't cheap drugs.
I think that's an interesting thought with respect to the shortages. I haven't really heard much about the use of these drugs outside of commercials so I wasn't sure how often they were prescribed. It could be a factor of both; supplies may have been somewhat limited due to demand but the Hollywood craze also used up a good portion of what would otherwise be adequate supplies for its intended use. Apparently one of the articles above mentioned one GLP-1RA being taken off the market due to lack of demand.
There was this article where some pharmacists have said they were not stocking these drugs because they were losing money on them:
Keep in mind that the argument that "there is no reason they can't make enough" depends on the actual manufacturing process which most people are not privy to. It's easy to assume large pharmaceutical companies should have the capacity to produce large quantities without looking into the nitty gritty to see if they can.
I can't help to wonder what the long term consequences will be. Since folks on these drugs do not have an appetite...will they be malnourished? Osteopenia/osteoporosis, muscle wasting due to inadequate protein intake, inadequate fat for hormone production, healthy brain, nerve conduction, cells. All the macronutrients and micronutrients will be deficient. What will happen long term? I guess we will find out.
I'm curious how their diets change and if it does make them more selective in their eating habits, or if they just decide to consume less irrespective of what it is. However, given that these people are already obese it's likely they are already over nourished so that may not be too big of an issue if well-controlled.
I'm curious about the long-term effects as well. Since they do act as hormones, and since there does appear to be receptors within our CNS I'm curious if long-term use may lead to some form of tolerance.
Mar 29, 2023·edited Mar 29, 2023Liked by Modern Discontent
I have a hunch-- but no proof-- that these new weight loss drugs contributed to the untimely deaths of Kirstie Alley (aggressive colon cancer) & LM Pressley (cardiac arrest, opiates, etc).
----
Look at how cringey this video is of Chelsea Handler. You can tell it's a pharma ad because she keeps repeating the product name.
To make that argument we would have to have some association between those factors (i.e. the cancer and the cardiac arrest), as well as having evidence that they were on such medications. The Presley one is interesting since they at least describe that she was on a serious weight loss regimen, but that's also ambiguous as well.
I really don't know what to make of Chelsea's remarks. OK, she didn't know that she was on Ozempic, but she also was taking something for weight loss. Irrespective of what the drug was the fact that she found it necessary to take this drug is the issue.
Yes! Actually because I’m a total sugar addict and because I was so turned off by sugar, it helped me learn new behaviors and adopt better eating habits. I’m basically a clean eater, pescatarian, but wine and brownies, chocolate.. Semaglutide completely obliterated those cravings and thoughts.
I’ve never felt better in many ways and I’m hoping to manage the off ramp and use Semaglutide judiciously.
153 pounds to 123! I’m small framed a normal size 2-4.
Fascinating! I have an issue with sugar as well so I definitely can connect on that part! Sweets are my weakness!
I'm curious if that really helped given the association with insulin release. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a lot quicker to provide that feedback mechanism for a high sugar diet.
Thanks for sharing some more details. It really is interesting and I find a lot of this rather fascinating.
"Recently, the American Academy of Pediatrics has included medications such as Ozempic and other similar drugs into their recommendations for childhood obesity"
Are they inclusive enough to also cover children who "identify as fat" with that? I believe that's the so-called "trans fats". *badum tish* (Formerly aka anorexic. Unhealthy either way!)
It's actually ironic you bring that up. When it comes to hormones such as testosterone it's still very difficult for people who are male and have very low testosterone levels to get replacement therapy, and yet if you identify as trans they pass it out very easily. 🤷♂️
Careful with those trans fats jokes! Hopefully Twitter doesn't scour these parts. 👀
Interesting! Thanks for sharing your experience. If you don't mind me asking, did you notice any changes in perception of eating and food? As I mentioned with WendeAnne I'm curious if the effects of weight loss are also dictated by how strongly it changes one's perception of food and eating.
Mar 29, 2023·edited Mar 29, 2023Liked by Modern Discontent
It really didn't, but maybe it was just me. I take a lot of medications, so it may have just been different for me. It made me feel not quite as hungry the first few days after the injection, but that feeling didn't last an entire week for me. Luckily, my doctor was giving me free sample boxes of it, so I wasn't out any money for trying. I did try to fill a script for the Wegovy later on, and it was almost as if I could hear my insurance company laughing from a distance...LOL...no way were they going to pay for it! But that was right when it first came out, so maybe the price has gone down since then? My doc seemed to think it was basically just a stronger version of Ozempic - so may not have worked for me anyway. I'll admit I'm guilty of always looking for the magic pill or easy way. There was a drug several years ago called Belviq, and I lost a ton of weight with no side effects. Then the FDA pulled it because they discovered it was causing thyroid cancer that they hadn't noticed before it was initially approved. But wow...if there was ever a magic weight-loss pill, Belviq was it! And no jitters at all!
The price seems to still be crazy high. I linked to an article above in which many pharmacies are not considering stocking the drug because they're actually losing money (one pharmacist mentioned purchasing it for $900 but only getting reimbursed for $860 so they're losing $40 bucks/prescription).
I believe Wegovy is a higher dosage so that makes sense. It's interesting that it tapered off, and apparently near the end of the dosage? That could speak to some pharmacokinetics. Possibly your body was metabolizing it quicker than others?
I'll keep in mind Belviq. I would like to do a retrospective series at some point and look back at some pharmaceuticals that have come to market and why they were pulled off the market. Hopefully people would be interested in that.
Love Semaglutide! Game changer. I get it from a compounding pharmacy. Lost 30 pounds, A1C at 4.6, blood work looks incredible, stops sugar craving, and slows gut motility. I’m off now as I’m at 125 pounds, my ideal weight. BMI dropped from 26 to 21. It’s expensive but worth it. I’m a retired pharmacist so I know exactly what I signed up for. Additionally, I microdosed it, still worked well! Healthy weight loss of 2 pounds a week.
Thanks for your perspective! If you don't mind sharing, did you notice a lot of neurocognitive changes i.e. that you viewed food and eating differently? I'm curious whether the weight loss is contingent upon both prior eating habits as well as the neurological effects of appetite suppression.
Insulin is not "excreted", it is "secreted". To be excreted would be to remove it from the body, such as being excreted through urine or sweat.
However, the entire premise of these drugs is faulty, since Type 2 diabetes is a "disease" of EXCESS INSULIN! But actually, it is not a disease at all, but rather a physiologically normal response to an abnormal and dangerous dietary regimen of too much and too-frequent consumption of carbohydrates, and most particularly overconsumption of fructose, a sugar component of sucrose and HF corn syrup that contributes to fattly liver disease and liver insulin resistance.
"There’s no doubt that losing weight with our modern lifestyles would be difficult. However, the answer to these forms of adversity is not to reach for pharmaceutical means of weight-loss."
You don't say! If we take a look around at the plant and animal kingdoms, it is possible to observe that certain life-forms do well in certain environments and with certain diets. Is there any life-form on earth that does well in an environment loaded with toxins and a diet of industrial processed and ultra-processed (I like simply 'adulterated') "foods"?
As I think you implied, there is only so much of this mess ('modern lifestyles') that we can fix. Still, most people could do better by just eating food instead of industrial glop. But it wouldn't be as cheap or convenient. (Related to "quick fix".)
I have struggled with weight gain most of my life. I have had to discover a number of different factors that were contributing to the problem, consumption of industrial glop (A.K.A. "food-like substances") being the most important one. About two years ago I found a combination of dietary and other adjustments that brought my weight down and kept it down without creating any major new problems. Finally! And keeping my older clothes really paid off.
Except that now I am underweight, for the first time in my life. Where does it end?
So I don't know any simple solution either. Popping pills sure isn't it. In fact I discovered something that surprised even the doctor that I work with (on a cash basis -- no interference from insurance companies). Five years ago I let myself be fooled into thinking that a certain genetic condition I inherited, that causes high LDL-C and super-high LP(a), was risky enough that I should try taking pharmaceuticals to lower cholesterol.
I won't go into details here about what I took, but around the same time, out of common sense, I adjusted my diet back to a reduced carbohydrate one that had worked previously but had created major new problems. By this time I knew the cause of those new problems (involving a birth defect) and I was able to compensate and avoid them. I also knew how much evidence there was for lowered cholesterol preventing heart attacks (I do also have heart disease), and losing excess weight made so much more sense to me. The cardiologist was uninterested in that. (He eventually removed himself from my life by wasting an appointment where he tried rather hard to persuade me to "get the shots". That's the last I ever had anything to do with him. Contraindications, what are those anyway? Fortunately, I knew them well.)
The result of this diet, that worked so well before? Nothing. Weight steady, and significantly overweight. It took three more years and a miracle to learn what was wrong. It was the cholesterol-lowering drugs. Working with my doctor, I had learned that the hereditary problem I have was not the death sentence that the industry would like us to believe, and that its risk did not correlate with cholesterol levels. So I dumped the drugs. The miracle was learning that they could prevent weight loss. And the diet started working. Over the next year, I lost the excess weight and moved into my ideal range. But then another 5 pounds below that, before it leveled off. And then another 5 pounds suddenly lower a few weeks when something got me that I couldn't identify (it has passed).
I have regained that last 5 pounds, and will be back in my ideal range soon. (I can identify 'ideal' by how I feel.) My doctor is providing information about what else I need to do about aging and muscle loss (the likely cause of my underweight). He's seen this work before. There is no pill for it. It involves exercise. I have problems with exercise because of an endocrine disorder (quite possibly iatrogenic), but there are still ways to make it work. No, it's not as convenient as popping a pill, but it actually works and isn't poisonous. That should be worth something.
As I have now said numerous times in numerous places on Substack and elsewhere, I have a view of life -- all life -- as having been designed and created. Each life-form has its particular design requirements. Violate those and you've got trouble. Pay attention to creation and creator and you are apt to do well, even if physical life is less than perfect. That is my view, and others can believe as they wish. It may not make sense to some, but popping pills to lose weight makes absolutely no sense to me.
My argument was around the idea that most foods we come across will be processed/packaged rather than whole foods, so modern eating habits are inherently an uphill battle given these circumstances. These treatments may work for some but it shouldn't be the immediate approach, especially when people still have a completely unhealthy relationship with food. And so it's a lack of perspective that is likely a key player here. Someone who loses weight but is not cognizant that the foods and lifestyles they held previously were the main drivers may go back to these habits thinking that they have it managed.
At the end of the day, I wouldn't be much to provide anecdotal evidence since my diet could be better, but having an understanding of what's good and what's not is important rather than just eating to feel satiated.
Also, thanks for sharing your story! Plenty of factors are at play and it's understandable why weight loss and getting healthy can differ between people. I think having a better understanding of our bodies should help.
Just a few points, these drugs are injected daily or weekly and cost several hundred dollars per month. They are violently expensive. I don’t actually believe that there are these shortages, I think that the makers are falsely causing the shortages to drum up hype and demand. There is no reason that they can’t make enough for everyone who would benefit from it and at a reasonable cost. This is a major marketing ploy!! Don’t fall for it
With Ozempic I believe it's around 1k so these definitely aren't cheap drugs.
I think that's an interesting thought with respect to the shortages. I haven't really heard much about the use of these drugs outside of commercials so I wasn't sure how often they were prescribed. It could be a factor of both; supplies may have been somewhat limited due to demand but the Hollywood craze also used up a good portion of what would otherwise be adequate supplies for its intended use. Apparently one of the articles above mentioned one GLP-1RA being taken off the market due to lack of demand.
There was this article where some pharmacists have said they were not stocking these drugs because they were losing money on them:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/ozempic-wegovy-shortages-pharmacists-not-stocking-rcna71610
Keep in mind that the argument that "there is no reason they can't make enough" depends on the actual manufacturing process which most people are not privy to. It's easy to assume large pharmaceutical companies should have the capacity to produce large quantities without looking into the nitty gritty to see if they can.
I can't help to wonder what the long term consequences will be. Since folks on these drugs do not have an appetite...will they be malnourished? Osteopenia/osteoporosis, muscle wasting due to inadequate protein intake, inadequate fat for hormone production, healthy brain, nerve conduction, cells. All the macronutrients and micronutrients will be deficient. What will happen long term? I guess we will find out.
I'm curious how their diets change and if it does make them more selective in their eating habits, or if they just decide to consume less irrespective of what it is. However, given that these people are already obese it's likely they are already over nourished so that may not be too big of an issue if well-controlled.
I'm curious about the long-term effects as well. Since they do act as hormones, and since there does appear to be receptors within our CNS I'm curious if long-term use may lead to some form of tolerance.
It’s important to eat very well and very clean because you will eat less.
Studies show calorie restriction is actually very healthy as long as you eat a nutrient dense diet.
I have a hunch-- but no proof-- that these new weight loss drugs contributed to the untimely deaths of Kirstie Alley (aggressive colon cancer) & LM Pressley (cardiac arrest, opiates, etc).
----
Look at how cringey this video is of Chelsea Handler. You can tell it's a pharma ad because she keeps repeating the product name.
https://twitter.com/Variety/status/1618679381228154881
----
Kirstie Alley was against mandates, and probably unvaccinated:
https://twitter.com/kirstiealley/status/1449459890817208326
Presley's weight loss before death:
https://www.tmz.com/2023/01/30/lisa-marie-presley-opioids-weight-loss-death-golden-globes/
To make that argument we would have to have some association between those factors (i.e. the cancer and the cardiac arrest), as well as having evidence that they were on such medications. The Presley one is interesting since they at least describe that she was on a serious weight loss regimen, but that's also ambiguous as well.
I really don't know what to make of Chelsea's remarks. OK, she didn't know that she was on Ozempic, but she also was taking something for weight loss. Irrespective of what the drug was the fact that she found it necessary to take this drug is the issue.
Yes! Actually because I’m a total sugar addict and because I was so turned off by sugar, it helped me learn new behaviors and adopt better eating habits. I’m basically a clean eater, pescatarian, but wine and brownies, chocolate.. Semaglutide completely obliterated those cravings and thoughts.
I’ve never felt better in many ways and I’m hoping to manage the off ramp and use Semaglutide judiciously.
153 pounds to 123! I’m small framed a normal size 2-4.
Fascinating! I have an issue with sugar as well so I definitely can connect on that part! Sweets are my weakness!
I'm curious if that really helped given the association with insulin release. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a lot quicker to provide that feedback mechanism for a high sugar diet.
Thanks for sharing some more details. It really is interesting and I find a lot of this rather fascinating.
"Recently, the American Academy of Pediatrics has included medications such as Ozempic and other similar drugs into their recommendations for childhood obesity"
Are they inclusive enough to also cover children who "identify as fat" with that? I believe that's the so-called "trans fats". *badum tish* (Formerly aka anorexic. Unhealthy either way!)
It's actually ironic you bring that up. When it comes to hormones such as testosterone it's still very difficult for people who are male and have very low testosterone levels to get replacement therapy, and yet if you identify as trans they pass it out very easily. 🤷♂️
Careful with those trans fats jokes! Hopefully Twitter doesn't scour these parts. 👀
Overrated. Lost 4 pounds after 2 months. Not worth it.
Interesting! Thanks for sharing your experience. If you don't mind me asking, did you notice any changes in perception of eating and food? As I mentioned with WendeAnne I'm curious if the effects of weight loss are also dictated by how strongly it changes one's perception of food and eating.
Semaglutide will not work if you have underlying thyroid issues. I’ve seen this at pharmacy level.
Since it's essentially working as a hormone I wouldn't be surprised if there's a relationship between the two.
Interesting...never thought about that.
It really didn't, but maybe it was just me. I take a lot of medications, so it may have just been different for me. It made me feel not quite as hungry the first few days after the injection, but that feeling didn't last an entire week for me. Luckily, my doctor was giving me free sample boxes of it, so I wasn't out any money for trying. I did try to fill a script for the Wegovy later on, and it was almost as if I could hear my insurance company laughing from a distance...LOL...no way were they going to pay for it! But that was right when it first came out, so maybe the price has gone down since then? My doc seemed to think it was basically just a stronger version of Ozempic - so may not have worked for me anyway. I'll admit I'm guilty of always looking for the magic pill or easy way. There was a drug several years ago called Belviq, and I lost a ton of weight with no side effects. Then the FDA pulled it because they discovered it was causing thyroid cancer that they hadn't noticed before it was initially approved. But wow...if there was ever a magic weight-loss pill, Belviq was it! And no jitters at all!
The price seems to still be crazy high. I linked to an article above in which many pharmacies are not considering stocking the drug because they're actually losing money (one pharmacist mentioned purchasing it for $900 but only getting reimbursed for $860 so they're losing $40 bucks/prescription).
I believe Wegovy is a higher dosage so that makes sense. It's interesting that it tapered off, and apparently near the end of the dosage? That could speak to some pharmacokinetics. Possibly your body was metabolizing it quicker than others?
I'll keep in mind Belviq. I would like to do a retrospective series at some point and look back at some pharmaceuticals that have come to market and why they were pulled off the market. Hopefully people would be interested in that.
I would love to know more about why Belviq was approved, then pulled. Thank you for all your research. Very interesting!
Love Semaglutide! Game changer. I get it from a compounding pharmacy. Lost 30 pounds, A1C at 4.6, blood work looks incredible, stops sugar craving, and slows gut motility. I’m off now as I’m at 125 pounds, my ideal weight. BMI dropped from 26 to 21. It’s expensive but worth it. I’m a retired pharmacist so I know exactly what I signed up for. Additionally, I microdosed it, still worked well! Healthy weight loss of 2 pounds a week.
Thanks for your perspective! If you don't mind sharing, did you notice a lot of neurocognitive changes i.e. that you viewed food and eating differently? I'm curious whether the weight loss is contingent upon both prior eating habits as well as the neurological effects of appetite suppression.
Well done WendeAnne, may I ask what you consider a micro dose? Less than 0.6mg?
I started at .6 and was able to loose 2 pounds a week, never went over 20 units. Used for 5 months or so.
Have not gained back a pound.
When my next vial arrives, I’m dosing 20 units every other week.
I have found that I still feel effects several weeks off. Half life is 7 days.
Very good post. Thank you.
Something tells me Handler likes any drug.
I don't know much about her, aside from the fact I would like to keep it that way.
Insulin is not "excreted", it is "secreted". To be excreted would be to remove it from the body, such as being excreted through urine or sweat.
However, the entire premise of these drugs is faulty, since Type 2 diabetes is a "disease" of EXCESS INSULIN! But actually, it is not a disease at all, but rather a physiologically normal response to an abnormal and dangerous dietary regimen of too much and too-frequent consumption of carbohydrates, and most particularly overconsumption of fructose, a sugar component of sucrose and HF corn syrup that contributes to fattly liver disease and liver insulin resistance.