A new study suggests that more COVID infections are associated with increased risk of long COVID and death. Is there more to the study than meets the COVID paranoid eye?
One variable--maybe the most important variable--that I don't see mentioned in these studies is whether the subjects had received the covid experimental injections, and if so, how many. Are repeated infections occurring in people who have not had any of the injections? If so, how does the rate of repeat infections compare to the rate of repeat infection in the injected group? And are the long term consequences of repeat infections the same in both groups?
Apologies for getting back to you so late, but the Supplementary Table 6 actually includes the vaccination rates at the bottom but I had to cut it off because of my makeshift print screen and cropping method of grabbing the chart.
The data for vaccination is actually inconsistent, in that both the "3 or higher" infection group and the "no infection" group had similar vaccination rates. For boosters the "3 or higher" group had the lowest percentage, although that was only measuring 2 out of the 1,023 people in that cohort.
Boosting may not have been accounted for well based on the timing of the study and so boosting may not have been widespread at the time. So with that being said the evidence doesn't appear to correlate with vaccination.
With that being said, the information from Fig. 2 is rather telling since it would actually suggest that vaccination may not reduce death or PASC by much within this cohort. Now, this may be due to some immunological factors given how old this cohort is and their number of comorbidities. It's likely that they may just be more susceptible to PASC. The post from Thursday suggested a PASC incidence of about 10% in the non-PAXLOVID group which is remarkably high and may indicate that a specific feature of this cohort being more vulnerable.
And why is it assumed that the risk from multiple infections differs from that of multiple shots? In both cases there’s a lot of spike protein coursing through your body.
not assuming anything. Just asking for data. Seems like it would be useful to know whether these repeat covid cases with dire long term effects are happening only to those who took the injections or whether they are also happening to those who took no injections. Regarding why breakdown the data by how many injections, again I'm just asking for the data. Yes, we know that mRNA shows up 60 days or longer after injection, but wouldn't a second injection add more mRNA to the mix, so that there's now more spike? I believe the really bad "side effects", including death, happened more frequently after the second injection. Heart damage may be cumulative for example.
You are right that spike is in your body from an infection just like it's in your body after an injection. However, the injection results in far more spike than you get from an infection. For example, a recent study concluded that covid infection does not increase myo or pericarditis risk, but the injections do.
My 2 cents: I utilize the VA for healthcare and have taught classes there. There is no other single, unhealthy population (okay, maybe you can find one). Cigarettes, diet, morbid obesity, dependence on meds (many meds handed out like candy; except pain meds) rather than self care, type 2 diabetes runs rampant. If you want to study an unhealthy population you have it. I am in a small group: I am female, older, no shots: flu or covid. I am quite healthy and go out of my way to stay away from the VA.
That seems to be the case with using the VA data. It's a very interesting dataset because it at least allows researchers to have a group with routine surveillance to provide some large data on. However, it appears that a lot of this data is being used to extract any inference possible. They are certainly far more unhealthy, which is rather unsettling for those who serve our country to be in such a debilitating state of health.
It would be interesting to also see the number of injections included in the data. Anecdotally, among my patients (an admittedly small population)only one multiple times injected patient denies ever having had Covid, while many seem to be suffering from repeat infections, whereas unvaccinated usually report only one infection.
As I mentioned above to pimaCanyon they actually include vaccination data across several of the studies. For Figure 5 specifically there doesn't seem to be any correlation as the "3 infections or more" group had the fewest boosters and had a 2-dose vaccination rate similar to the non-infection group.
I think one thing to consider is behavioral factors. Although likely to be not as grand as other factors, there could be a relationship between the need for constant vaccination going along with constant testing. I've never gotten vaccinated and I had Omicron in January since my family and many people we knew got it. Aside from that I got sick in the fall and just recently felt a little funky but didn't test then because it wasn't a big concern for me.
There's a general issue of the data being messy and sifting through can be rather difficult.
Personally, I'm not too convinced of the long term immune suppression just yet as many factors are just as likely or appear more viable such as many of the children getting sick right now likely being due to immunity debt more than being something related to the vaccines.
I am unjab’d and had Delta in July 2021. I haven’t had a sniffle since then, feel better than ever! I did start paying very close attention to Vitamin D levels etc after that. I take several supplements designed to boost my immunity.
Oh I didn’t mean you assuming. I meant this study and the world at large, which seems to believe that 5, 6, 7 injections are fine but 2 infections are somehow deadly.
One variable--maybe the most important variable--that I don't see mentioned in these studies is whether the subjects had received the covid experimental injections, and if so, how many. Are repeated infections occurring in people who have not had any of the injections? If so, how does the rate of repeat infections compare to the rate of repeat infection in the injected group? And are the long term consequences of repeat infections the same in both groups?
Apologies for getting back to you so late, but the Supplementary Table 6 actually includes the vaccination rates at the bottom but I had to cut it off because of my makeshift print screen and cropping method of grabbing the chart.
The data for vaccination is actually inconsistent, in that both the "3 or higher" infection group and the "no infection" group had similar vaccination rates. For boosters the "3 or higher" group had the lowest percentage, although that was only measuring 2 out of the 1,023 people in that cohort.
Boosting may not have been accounted for well based on the timing of the study and so boosting may not have been widespread at the time. So with that being said the evidence doesn't appear to correlate with vaccination.
With that being said, the information from Fig. 2 is rather telling since it would actually suggest that vaccination may not reduce death or PASC by much within this cohort. Now, this may be due to some immunological factors given how old this cohort is and their number of comorbidities. It's likely that they may just be more susceptible to PASC. The post from Thursday suggested a PASC incidence of about 10% in the non-PAXLOVID group which is remarkably high and may indicate that a specific feature of this cohort being more vulnerable.
thank you. Have a great weekend!
This.
We don't need no stinkin' confounding variables. Especially if they are safe and effective anyway.
right. 'course, we know now that they are not safe and they are not effective!
And why is it assumed that the risk from multiple infections differs from that of multiple shots? In both cases there’s a lot of spike protein coursing through your body.
not assuming anything. Just asking for data. Seems like it would be useful to know whether these repeat covid cases with dire long term effects are happening only to those who took the injections or whether they are also happening to those who took no injections. Regarding why breakdown the data by how many injections, again I'm just asking for the data. Yes, we know that mRNA shows up 60 days or longer after injection, but wouldn't a second injection add more mRNA to the mix, so that there's now more spike? I believe the really bad "side effects", including death, happened more frequently after the second injection. Heart damage may be cumulative for example.
You are right that spike is in your body from an infection just like it's in your body after an injection. However, the injection results in far more spike than you get from an infection. For example, a recent study concluded that covid infection does not increase myo or pericarditis risk, but the injections do.
Buried in supplementary data. No change but vaxxed had higher all cause mortality
https://pete843.substack.com/p/va-study-covid-is-worse-in-those
Good find! Thank you!
My 2 cents: I utilize the VA for healthcare and have taught classes there. There is no other single, unhealthy population (okay, maybe you can find one). Cigarettes, diet, morbid obesity, dependence on meds (many meds handed out like candy; except pain meds) rather than self care, type 2 diabetes runs rampant. If you want to study an unhealthy population you have it. I am in a small group: I am female, older, no shots: flu or covid. I am quite healthy and go out of my way to stay away from the VA.
That seems to be the case with using the VA data. It's a very interesting dataset because it at least allows researchers to have a group with routine surveillance to provide some large data on. However, it appears that a lot of this data is being used to extract any inference possible. They are certainly far more unhealthy, which is rather unsettling for those who serve our country to be in such a debilitating state of health.
It would be interesting to also see the number of injections included in the data. Anecdotally, among my patients (an admittedly small population)only one multiple times injected patient denies ever having had Covid, while many seem to be suffering from repeat infections, whereas unvaccinated usually report only one infection.
As I mentioned above to pimaCanyon they actually include vaccination data across several of the studies. For Figure 5 specifically there doesn't seem to be any correlation as the "3 infections or more" group had the fewest boosters and had a 2-dose vaccination rate similar to the non-infection group.
I think one thing to consider is behavioral factors. Although likely to be not as grand as other factors, there could be a relationship between the need for constant vaccination going along with constant testing. I've never gotten vaccinated and I had Omicron in January since my family and many people we knew got it. Aside from that I got sick in the fall and just recently felt a little funky but didn't test then because it wasn't a big concern for me.
There's a general issue of the data being messy and sifting through can be rather difficult.
Personally, I'm not too convinced of the long term immune suppression just yet as many factors are just as likely or appear more viable such as many of the children getting sick right now likely being due to immunity debt more than being something related to the vaccines.
I am unjab’d and had Delta in July 2021. I haven’t had a sniffle since then, feel better than ever! I did start paying very close attention to Vitamin D levels etc after that. I take several supplements designed to boost my immunity.
Thank you! 👍🏽 This is so important to know as the fear mongering about long covid might trick some people into supporting nonsensical covid measures.
True. I count myself fortunate not going down that rabbit hole.
Oh I didn’t mean you assuming. I meant this study and the world at large, which seems to believe that 5, 6, 7 injections are fine but 2 infections are somehow deadly.