From the study "Thirty four trials (3230 participants) were included. Meta-analysis showed that the mean change in urinary sodium (reduced salt v usual salt) was -75 mmol/24 h (equivalent to a reduction of 4.4 g/day salt), and with this reduction in salt intake, the mean change in blood pressure was -4.18 mm Hg (95% confidence interval -5.18 to -3.18, I(2)=75%) for systolic blood pressure and -2.06 mm Hg (-2.67 to -1.45, I(2)=68%) for diastolic blood pressure."
Reducing salt intake by a whopping 4.4 g/day produced a mere 4.18 mm hg reduction in systolic and a 2.06 in diastolic. That's a lot of bland food for a benefit that is barely worth considering
So that's what I was getting at at the end. I didn't place it here because I would need to do more research but sodium alone doesn't seem to be a culprit, but more the lack of balance. It does appear that high sodium intake balanced with high potassium may help with hypertension more than just low sodium/potassium, so it would appear that maintaining ion ratios is more important.
But even that being said, it doesn't argue against the fact that most processed foods are full of sodium. One is far less likely to consume too much sodium if eating less processed foods, so that wouldn't even be an issue. It's more of the added sodium outside of the hands of the consumer that people should be concerned about, hence why the emphasis on whole foods and avoiding processed foods.
Thanks for bringing up. I could put my fingers on this information but knew it was out there. I have been frustrated with the sodium is the bad guy scenario for quite a while.
Good research but IRL sodium reductions doesn’t do much unless someone already had renal dysfunction or CHF.
Instead of looking at the minerals as the cause, perhaps look at what low or high levels do to the body in terms of the hormonal or signaling responses.
In a normal person, if they eat a lot of sodium foods their kidneys can easily clear it without a problem.
As we can’t manufacture sodium we need sodium and all the other minerals in our diet. Our kidneys are there to help clear out excess which they do very well.
I don’t have the link handy but I believe All Cause Mortality is highest in people on low sodium diets. So the general recommendations of lowering sodium intake is not helpful unless someone has preexisting renal dysfunction or CHF.
As for the main cause of hypertension I see in clinical practice, it is chronic insulin resistant states that occur most often in overweight people on the SAD diet.
As insulin rises we store more fat. When we store fat we need to balance it with water and minerals including sodium. So chronic high insulin states makes us retain more salt water which can feedback to the kidneys and contribute to elevated blood pressure.
I rarely recommend low salt diets but I do agree to get healthy amounts of the other minerals you discussed.
Last thing.
What is the bodies response if we don’t have enough sodium? Our hormones adjust to increase our blood pressure. In other words in a low or deficient sodium state our body raises our blood pressure. Perhaps in high insulin states sodium is partitioned more in fat cells so the kidneys think we need more??? Just a hypothesis??
I do write that renal dysfunction may be associated with improper sodium clearance. It's true that the body has ways of releasing excess minerals. However, from at least the Takahashi, et al. piece the argument with sodium is that there are more mechanisms biased towards retention due to low sodium found in most natural foods. The argument here, if the hypothesis holds, would suggest that we don't have robust mechanisms to deal with sodium clearance to the same level as other minerals. Thus, sodium may be reabsorbed more frequently, but paired with kidney issues and that makes it worse.
I will likely add a note above, but to sodium consumption most excess sodium isn't coming from the addition of sodium to foods cooked at home, but more to the sodium from processed foods. The inference here being that modern eating has forgone whole foods for prepackaged, frozen heavily processed foods that don't provide much in mineral balance aside from a ton of salt. It's likely that any addition of salt to foods that would otherwise contain high levels of potassium and other minerals would be far more balanced than processed foods.
As I mentioned at the end, low minerals also have detrimental effects on the body, the same ways that one can't just supplement with excess magnesium or calcium and not experience issues as even high doses of otherwise preventative minerals may have cardiovascular issues as well. Again, it's the balance that's important rather than just limiting sodium.
I limited the scope of this article to just write about some different habits that can help with hypertension, not necessarily the causes of hypertension itself because otherwise to write about that would probably take up a book. This article on minerals alone could go on far longer as well but I just have to stop at some point otherwise going deeper into the different channels and mechanisms of minerals on the body would then itself become its own book.
I was just bringing up other mechanisms to look at that don't always work the way traditional dogma thinks.
Agree 100% on the modern diet and processed food part as well as it really is all about balance. As you alluded to, the balance is probably different based on dietary regimens.
I think, but can never prove, that carnivore diets need more minerals and vegetarian somehow less. Not sure if it is an absorption issue with veggies vs meat, or if the kidneys process these different.
I write based on what I can find and then have to limit that information in order to create the article. In places where I don't emphasize something I'd hope that readers can infer something, as in this case it's probably unlike that someone will consume too much sodium with home cooked meals- the salt levels would probably be far too noticeable to make it palatable, and even then if mixed with veggies you can probably offset that effect to some degree.
I'm not a medical professional so my perspective would differ from someone who actually practices and sees patients, but it definitely appears that insulin would be related in some way. Several of the articles I have come across have associated hypertension with T2D due to the effects on vasculature, so I wouldn't be surprised to see if insulin plays some mechanism. I think at the end of the day what's important is recognizing that things are so dichotomous as we would like to think. Many biological mechanisms are far more related than gets reported.
I've certainly have grown more critical of mainstream dogma. I think the biggest issue with mainstream dogma is that it tends to oversimplify things by assuming that the public is too stupid to figure things out on their own. So we have an intentionally dumbed down populace that gets served very basic guidelines. I'd hope that my writing, as well as others, help to deviate from that rudimentary thinking and help point out that things aren't black and white.
I think your last point is very interesting. I think one issue with minerals can be due to chelating agents in plants/animals that limit the availability of the minerals. I believe this happens with zinc, and most minerals in general appear to have relatively low bioavailability as well which makes it more interesting as well.
It's all complex and very contextual-based which is something a lot more people should consider.
High blood pressure due to insulins effect on vasculature is I believe less of a factor. If I treat a long time diabetic with high blood pressure by reducing their dietary carbs and this their insulin need, their blood pressure drops quickly.
So insulins effect on the vasculature even if chronic does not appear to be as much a factor as insulins effect on water and salt retention and any feedback that may play on the kidneys and hormones signalers that are part of blood pressure.
""I've certainly have grown more critical of mainstream dogma. I think the biggest issue with mainstream dogma is that it tends to oversimplify things by assuming that the public is too stupid to figure things out on their own.""
This frustrates me to no end. We can see this in the great cholesterol debate. Good cholesterol, bad cholesterol. It's way more complicated than just that and it's becoming more clear as time goes on that cholesterol may be associated with heart disease but may not cause it.
great comment. I happen to believe as you do, that insulin resistance plays a huge role in hypertension. I went Keto for a period of time and saw my systolic drop by around 10 mm hg, depending on the day.
OMG yes. I was so dizzy, and my taste buds compelled me to use massive amounts of salt. I went so far as to drink a salt/potassium/magnesium homemade mixture daily
Does Bernoulli’s principle apply if the pipes can dilate and constrict? When they dilate pressure falls and pressure rises when the constrict. This balance is occurring constantly.
I treat blood pressure as a symptom, not as a disease.
I practice different in that I try to get people in a better balance so their own body fixes or rebalances itself. Then I don't have to worry as much about all the unknown variables.
sodium reduction produces week results.
From the study "Thirty four trials (3230 participants) were included. Meta-analysis showed that the mean change in urinary sodium (reduced salt v usual salt) was -75 mmol/24 h (equivalent to a reduction of 4.4 g/day salt), and with this reduction in salt intake, the mean change in blood pressure was -4.18 mm Hg (95% confidence interval -5.18 to -3.18, I(2)=75%) for systolic blood pressure and -2.06 mm Hg (-2.67 to -1.45, I(2)=68%) for diastolic blood pressure."
Reducing salt intake by a whopping 4.4 g/day produced a mere 4.18 mm hg reduction in systolic and a 2.06 in diastolic. That's a lot of bland food for a benefit that is barely worth considering
So that's what I was getting at at the end. I didn't place it here because I would need to do more research but sodium alone doesn't seem to be a culprit, but more the lack of balance. It does appear that high sodium intake balanced with high potassium may help with hypertension more than just low sodium/potassium, so it would appear that maintaining ion ratios is more important.
But even that being said, it doesn't argue against the fact that most processed foods are full of sodium. One is far less likely to consume too much sodium if eating less processed foods, so that wouldn't even be an issue. It's more of the added sodium outside of the hands of the consumer that people should be concerned about, hence why the emphasis on whole foods and avoiding processed foods.
Thanks for bringing up. I could put my fingers on this information but knew it was out there. I have been frustrated with the sodium is the bad guy scenario for quite a while.
Good research but IRL sodium reductions doesn’t do much unless someone already had renal dysfunction or CHF.
Instead of looking at the minerals as the cause, perhaps look at what low or high levels do to the body in terms of the hormonal or signaling responses.
In a normal person, if they eat a lot of sodium foods their kidneys can easily clear it without a problem.
As we can’t manufacture sodium we need sodium and all the other minerals in our diet. Our kidneys are there to help clear out excess which they do very well.
I don’t have the link handy but I believe All Cause Mortality is highest in people on low sodium diets. So the general recommendations of lowering sodium intake is not helpful unless someone has preexisting renal dysfunction or CHF.
As for the main cause of hypertension I see in clinical practice, it is chronic insulin resistant states that occur most often in overweight people on the SAD diet.
As insulin rises we store more fat. When we store fat we need to balance it with water and minerals including sodium. So chronic high insulin states makes us retain more salt water which can feedback to the kidneys and contribute to elevated blood pressure.
I rarely recommend low salt diets but I do agree to get healthy amounts of the other minerals you discussed.
Last thing.
What is the bodies response if we don’t have enough sodium? Our hormones adjust to increase our blood pressure. In other words in a low or deficient sodium state our body raises our blood pressure. Perhaps in high insulin states sodium is partitioned more in fat cells so the kidneys think we need more??? Just a hypothesis??
So a few points here.
I do write that renal dysfunction may be associated with improper sodium clearance. It's true that the body has ways of releasing excess minerals. However, from at least the Takahashi, et al. piece the argument with sodium is that there are more mechanisms biased towards retention due to low sodium found in most natural foods. The argument here, if the hypothesis holds, would suggest that we don't have robust mechanisms to deal with sodium clearance to the same level as other minerals. Thus, sodium may be reabsorbed more frequently, but paired with kidney issues and that makes it worse.
I will likely add a note above, but to sodium consumption most excess sodium isn't coming from the addition of sodium to foods cooked at home, but more to the sodium from processed foods. The inference here being that modern eating has forgone whole foods for prepackaged, frozen heavily processed foods that don't provide much in mineral balance aside from a ton of salt. It's likely that any addition of salt to foods that would otherwise contain high levels of potassium and other minerals would be far more balanced than processed foods.
As I mentioned at the end, low minerals also have detrimental effects on the body, the same ways that one can't just supplement with excess magnesium or calcium and not experience issues as even high doses of otherwise preventative minerals may have cardiovascular issues as well. Again, it's the balance that's important rather than just limiting sodium.
I limited the scope of this article to just write about some different habits that can help with hypertension, not necessarily the causes of hypertension itself because otherwise to write about that would probably take up a book. This article on minerals alone could go on far longer as well but I just have to stop at some point otherwise going deeper into the different channels and mechanisms of minerals on the body would then itself become its own book.
Thanks for the discussion.
I agree with much/most of what you wrote.
I was just bringing up other mechanisms to look at that don't always work the way traditional dogma thinks.
Agree 100% on the modern diet and processed food part as well as it really is all about balance. As you alluded to, the balance is probably different based on dietary regimens.
I think, but can never prove, that carnivore diets need more minerals and vegetarian somehow less. Not sure if it is an absorption issue with veggies vs meat, or if the kidneys process these different.
All just thought provoking.
Please keep writing as I enjoy your work.
Definitely understandable!
I write based on what I can find and then have to limit that information in order to create the article. In places where I don't emphasize something I'd hope that readers can infer something, as in this case it's probably unlike that someone will consume too much sodium with home cooked meals- the salt levels would probably be far too noticeable to make it palatable, and even then if mixed with veggies you can probably offset that effect to some degree.
I'm not a medical professional so my perspective would differ from someone who actually practices and sees patients, but it definitely appears that insulin would be related in some way. Several of the articles I have come across have associated hypertension with T2D due to the effects on vasculature, so I wouldn't be surprised to see if insulin plays some mechanism. I think at the end of the day what's important is recognizing that things are so dichotomous as we would like to think. Many biological mechanisms are far more related than gets reported.
I've certainly have grown more critical of mainstream dogma. I think the biggest issue with mainstream dogma is that it tends to oversimplify things by assuming that the public is too stupid to figure things out on their own. So we have an intentionally dumbed down populace that gets served very basic guidelines. I'd hope that my writing, as well as others, help to deviate from that rudimentary thinking and help point out that things aren't black and white.
I think your last point is very interesting. I think one issue with minerals can be due to chelating agents in plants/animals that limit the availability of the minerals. I believe this happens with zinc, and most minerals in general appear to have relatively low bioavailability as well which makes it more interesting as well.
It's all complex and very contextual-based which is something a lot more people should consider.
High blood pressure due to insulins effect on vasculature is I believe less of a factor. If I treat a long time diabetic with high blood pressure by reducing their dietary carbs and this their insulin need, their blood pressure drops quickly.
So insulins effect on the vasculature even if chronic does not appear to be as much a factor as insulins effect on water and salt retention and any feedback that may play on the kidneys and hormones signalers that are part of blood pressure.
Thanks for the insights! That's interesting.
""I've certainly have grown more critical of mainstream dogma. I think the biggest issue with mainstream dogma is that it tends to oversimplify things by assuming that the public is too stupid to figure things out on their own.""
This frustrates me to no end. We can see this in the great cholesterol debate. Good cholesterol, bad cholesterol. It's way more complicated than just that and it's becoming more clear as time goes on that cholesterol may be associated with heart disease but may not cause it.
great comment. I happen to believe as you do, that insulin resistance plays a huge role in hypertension. I went Keto for a period of time and saw my systolic drop by around 10 mm hg, depending on the day.
And with keto, most people at least initially INCREASE their intake of salt, and other minerals, both for taste and to prevent possible keto flu.
OMG yes. I was so dizzy, and my taste buds compelled me to use massive amounts of salt. I went so far as to drink a salt/potassium/magnesium homemade mixture daily
Ana
Good discussion.
Does Bernoulli’s principle apply if the pipes can dilate and constrict? When they dilate pressure falls and pressure rises when the constrict. This balance is occurring constantly.
I treat blood pressure as a symptom, not as a disease.
Ana
Your questions are all good and mechanistic.
I practice different in that I try to get people in a better balance so their own body fixes or rebalances itself. Then I don't have to worry as much about all the unknown variables.