Bodybuilder Jo 'Joesthetics" Lindler's recent death should remind us of the complexities in finding the truth that can't be explained with just "died suddenly" narratives.
If the argument is to suggest that we take a reductive approach and look specifically at the vaccines as the sole culprit of deaths, then we are boxing ourselves in without considering why certain people are being hit (and being hit differently) than other people.
For as controversial as this may sound, not everyone who has received the vaccine has died suddenly or have garnered a new malady. The question is figuring out exactly why, and we don't do ourselves favors if we look at every death out there and just immediately assume vaccine. People should also be aware that sudden deaths have always occurred even if it has become more prominent in the past few years. I knew of a kid who died suddenly in middle school during some sport practice (they didn't realize he had a heart condition). Derek also mentions knowing someone who died suddenly of a DVT blood clot.
Just because people haven't really heard of it doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but figuring out why things are going the way they are now requires nuanced thinking rather than simplistic, reductive models.
This post validates that every unexpected death should be a coroner's case with a full histology and pathology report for COD. It is paramount that all objective data be attained over several years in order to reveal vaccine or other product safety signals.
The burden for such testing and sampling would be insurmountable, and yet it's not like they're doing much as of now. We do need a lot more data than what we are given and it's a bit frustrating that as the pandemic moves on that the data coming out seems to be limiting as well.
Agreed absolutely. However daunting this task, the future of Mankind Is at stake. Man's ability to engineer solutions relies on as much objective data as possible.
In general agreement. 'We shouldn't have to", indeed. But it seems we are left with little other choices when no discussion is allowed.
"Those of you who think the vaccine kills people can use me as a test. If I die, you were right" -- I mean, what are we to make of a quote like this. Is it disrespectful to use as an example? Or is disrespectful not to use it as an example? It seems to me more disrespectful to the dead and the living, family or not, not to bring it up and discuss it.
I would disagree with the idea that we need to if it alters how we perceive they way things are going down. It's difficult to change someone's viewpoint when it's already entrenched, and I'm concerned with the how loosely people seem to have just taken any death they can find and just slapped a "vaccine-related death" onto it. The case of Joesthetics and other prominent figures tend to be easier to prop up because it gets more views and gets the speculating pot stirring, but it operates with limited information.
As to the bodybuilder you are referring to, I think such proclamations do open someone up to scrutiny. I think it's a bit disingenuous when you have someone saying that these things are perfectly safe and effective, but if they are reported have some strange illness and they ask people not speculate the doors have already been opened I would argue.
Overall, I think it's one thing to ask the "what if" question compared to the "it is" declaration. Some people are speculating while others are being definitive in suggesting that Joesthetics absolutely died from the vaccines, and it's absolutely wrong to make such statements in the same ways that some people who are made out to have died of natural causes may have died with some association to the vaccination.
That's my point of contention with what's going on, and especially if the deceased are propped up in a way of saying, "well, if this person died then certainly we are all doomed!", and it's not really playing out like that. It's really a form of catastrophization manifesting on both sides that just serve as ways of garnering attention and get people to click and subscribe really.
thank you for this post, you continue to advocate for critical thinking in a sea of reactivity based on inflexible/orthodox thinking. It is unfortunate he passed at a young age. Im not sure I can look at either and say that is the picture of health, however i would want to get labs and examine metabolic, immune and endocrine health because ultimately thoes are some of the more important indicators of health resilience and prevention of chronic disease.
I have some growing issues with how we can take any death or injury and just immediately slap on a "vaccine death" sticker without providing any context. I hope readers don't think that I am arguing that the vaccines didn't play a role, but that we have to examine what contributing factor they may have played. It's sort of the same idea as some people dismissing his steroid use and his disease when it's the sum of all variables that are worth examining.
The biggest thing we need to differentiate is the notion that fitness and aesthetics in any ways correlates with health. Deaths such as Joeshtetics and athletes are propped up for the message that these people are absolutely healthy, and if these healthy, fit individuals die then that leaves the rest of us plebs at risk! I think that's a disingenuous argument to make. Athletes are not comparable to the layperson. The same goes for bodybuilders and other people at the highest reaches of human achievements, but it doesn't stop people from using these deaths to promote a doomsday narrative.
We'll see whether any autopsies are conducted to provide a better picture. It's telling that we have such limited autopsy data to begin with.
I agree that we can't assume cause of death. But the question remains: why isn't the significant uptick in all cause mortality being investigated? A Canadian woman died during her 15 minute wait at the pharmacy and that wasn't properly investigated. Was it usual for kids to drop dead at school before or die in their sleep at these rates? Sudden deaths are up in athletes as well, significantly. If not "normal" rates, why are these deaths happening now & why doesn't anyone in the media or with the regulatory bodies want to investigate? - did you see Denis Rancourt's latest presentation last week (NCI roundtable) - compelling.
Well, I think the reservation over labeling every death as being related to the vaccines can exist simultaneously with concerns over excess mortality. WE can argue that there is something strange in the uptick in deaths that need far more investigation than we are being provided, while also saying that we can show some hesitation when we are presented with a death that says "this is clearly a vaccine death!" when the evidence of such a death are circumstantial at best.
The woman's case is an interesting one that would need investigation. Her death within minutes of vaccination may not suggest a response related to the antigen since it's not likely that the spike would be produced that quickly, but it would still be nonetheless worthy of investigation. The same goes for any strange deaths we are seeing. The problem is discerning what an actual uptick should look like that is separate from media attention. Like I told Coolguy above just because no one heard of the term sudden death prior to the vaccine rollout doesn't mean this never happened before, but we have to figure out what this uptick looks like and consider all contributory factors for these incidences.
And as I mentioned, my argument does not exclude athletes, but rather suggests that athletes are likely to be more at risk of adverse reactions due to the strain that already exists on their hearts which may already suffer from athelete's heart as a disease. So in that regard, maybe athletes are at higher risk and may explain some of the deaths seen, but it also suggests that athletes can't be used as a model to infer what would happen in the layperson because athletes are not laypeople.
I haven't seen that yet. I'll try looking it up later if I have the time, so thanks for mentioning it I'll see if I can get around to it.
You need three things to look like that: 1) great genetics 2) discipline and a work ethic bordering on mental illness and 3) chemicals. After a brief but intense fascination (in the abstract; not in practice) with bodybuilding last year, I'm convinced it is bar none the most dangerous sport there is.
I'm likely of the same mindset as you. I enjoy working out, and sort of became interested in that world through the pharmacological aspects of these drugs more than anything. It's also interesting to see what parallels can be drawn between the increasing use of these drugs in younger men and how that may carry over to the hormone therapies that are being pushed on kids in order to have them transition.
Joesthetics' rippling muscle disease does appear to work in his favor aesthetic-wise, as it apparently makes his muscles appear more striated. 🤷♂️ Either way these people aren't your typical gym goer so it becomes an issue when we use them as a frame of reference for what may happen in the rest of us.
We have witnessed such approach for many decades. Look everywhere - except where the problem is. Occam's razor resolves it all
If the argument is to suggest that we take a reductive approach and look specifically at the vaccines as the sole culprit of deaths, then we are boxing ourselves in without considering why certain people are being hit (and being hit differently) than other people.
For as controversial as this may sound, not everyone who has received the vaccine has died suddenly or have garnered a new malady. The question is figuring out exactly why, and we don't do ourselves favors if we look at every death out there and just immediately assume vaccine. People should also be aware that sudden deaths have always occurred even if it has become more prominent in the past few years. I knew of a kid who died suddenly in middle school during some sport practice (they didn't realize he had a heart condition). Derek also mentions knowing someone who died suddenly of a DVT blood clot.
Just because people haven't really heard of it doesn't mean it hasn't happened, but figuring out why things are going the way they are now requires nuanced thinking rather than simplistic, reductive models.
This post validates that every unexpected death should be a coroner's case with a full histology and pathology report for COD. It is paramount that all objective data be attained over several years in order to reveal vaccine or other product safety signals.
The burden for such testing and sampling would be insurmountable, and yet it's not like they're doing much as of now. We do need a lot more data than what we are given and it's a bit frustrating that as the pandemic moves on that the data coming out seems to be limiting as well.
Agreed absolutely. However daunting this task, the future of Mankind Is at stake. Man's ability to engineer solutions relies on as much objective data as possible.
Any data is better than no data. The fact that we still exist in a world of such limited research into the vaccines is mind-boggling.
In general agreement. 'We shouldn't have to", indeed. But it seems we are left with little other choices when no discussion is allowed.
"Those of you who think the vaccine kills people can use me as a test. If I die, you were right" -- I mean, what are we to make of a quote like this. Is it disrespectful to use as an example? Or is disrespectful not to use it as an example? It seems to me more disrespectful to the dead and the living, family or not, not to bring it up and discuss it.
I would disagree with the idea that we need to if it alters how we perceive they way things are going down. It's difficult to change someone's viewpoint when it's already entrenched, and I'm concerned with the how loosely people seem to have just taken any death they can find and just slapped a "vaccine-related death" onto it. The case of Joesthetics and other prominent figures tend to be easier to prop up because it gets more views and gets the speculating pot stirring, but it operates with limited information.
As to the bodybuilder you are referring to, I think such proclamations do open someone up to scrutiny. I think it's a bit disingenuous when you have someone saying that these things are perfectly safe and effective, but if they are reported have some strange illness and they ask people not speculate the doors have already been opened I would argue.
Overall, I think it's one thing to ask the "what if" question compared to the "it is" declaration. Some people are speculating while others are being definitive in suggesting that Joesthetics absolutely died from the vaccines, and it's absolutely wrong to make such statements in the same ways that some people who are made out to have died of natural causes may have died with some association to the vaccination.
That's my point of contention with what's going on, and especially if the deceased are propped up in a way of saying, "well, if this person died then certainly we are all doomed!", and it's not really playing out like that. It's really a form of catastrophization manifesting on both sides that just serve as ways of garnering attention and get people to click and subscribe really.
thank you for this post, you continue to advocate for critical thinking in a sea of reactivity based on inflexible/orthodox thinking. It is unfortunate he passed at a young age. Im not sure I can look at either and say that is the picture of health, however i would want to get labs and examine metabolic, immune and endocrine health because ultimately thoes are some of the more important indicators of health resilience and prevention of chronic disease.
I have some growing issues with how we can take any death or injury and just immediately slap on a "vaccine death" sticker without providing any context. I hope readers don't think that I am arguing that the vaccines didn't play a role, but that we have to examine what contributing factor they may have played. It's sort of the same idea as some people dismissing his steroid use and his disease when it's the sum of all variables that are worth examining.
The biggest thing we need to differentiate is the notion that fitness and aesthetics in any ways correlates with health. Deaths such as Joeshtetics and athletes are propped up for the message that these people are absolutely healthy, and if these healthy, fit individuals die then that leaves the rest of us plebs at risk! I think that's a disingenuous argument to make. Athletes are not comparable to the layperson. The same goes for bodybuilders and other people at the highest reaches of human achievements, but it doesn't stop people from using these deaths to promote a doomsday narrative.
We'll see whether any autopsies are conducted to provide a better picture. It's telling that we have such limited autopsy data to begin with.
Excellent article.
Thank you!
I agree that we can't assume cause of death. But the question remains: why isn't the significant uptick in all cause mortality being investigated? A Canadian woman died during her 15 minute wait at the pharmacy and that wasn't properly investigated. Was it usual for kids to drop dead at school before or die in their sleep at these rates? Sudden deaths are up in athletes as well, significantly. If not "normal" rates, why are these deaths happening now & why doesn't anyone in the media or with the regulatory bodies want to investigate? - did you see Denis Rancourt's latest presentation last week (NCI roundtable) - compelling.
Well, I think the reservation over labeling every death as being related to the vaccines can exist simultaneously with concerns over excess mortality. WE can argue that there is something strange in the uptick in deaths that need far more investigation than we are being provided, while also saying that we can show some hesitation when we are presented with a death that says "this is clearly a vaccine death!" when the evidence of such a death are circumstantial at best.
The woman's case is an interesting one that would need investigation. Her death within minutes of vaccination may not suggest a response related to the antigen since it's not likely that the spike would be produced that quickly, but it would still be nonetheless worthy of investigation. The same goes for any strange deaths we are seeing. The problem is discerning what an actual uptick should look like that is separate from media attention. Like I told Coolguy above just because no one heard of the term sudden death prior to the vaccine rollout doesn't mean this never happened before, but we have to figure out what this uptick looks like and consider all contributory factors for these incidences.
And as I mentioned, my argument does not exclude athletes, but rather suggests that athletes are likely to be more at risk of adverse reactions due to the strain that already exists on their hearts which may already suffer from athelete's heart as a disease. So in that regard, maybe athletes are at higher risk and may explain some of the deaths seen, but it also suggests that athletes can't be used as a model to infer what would happen in the layperson because athletes are not laypeople.
I haven't seen that yet. I'll try looking it up later if I have the time, so thanks for mentioning it I'll see if I can get around to it.
You need three things to look like that: 1) great genetics 2) discipline and a work ethic bordering on mental illness and 3) chemicals. After a brief but intense fascination (in the abstract; not in practice) with bodybuilding last year, I'm convinced it is bar none the most dangerous sport there is.
I'm likely of the same mindset as you. I enjoy working out, and sort of became interested in that world through the pharmacological aspects of these drugs more than anything. It's also interesting to see what parallels can be drawn between the increasing use of these drugs in younger men and how that may carry over to the hormone therapies that are being pushed on kids in order to have them transition.
Joesthetics' rippling muscle disease does appear to work in his favor aesthetic-wise, as it apparently makes his muscles appear more striated. 🤷♂️ Either way these people aren't your typical gym goer so it becomes an issue when we use them as a frame of reference for what may happen in the rest of us.