“Rather than try to find THE ANSWER, we should be reminded that uncertainty and complexity drives much of science and life. It should be embraced rather than discouraged.”
Mar 2, 2023·edited Mar 2, 2023Liked by Modern Discontent
I agree with you. I am a Covid writer. I have a number of people in my life who had Covid and I always ask them how was their experience. In addition, a few of my readers also mentioned their experiences.
The uncle of an acquaintaince died of Covid.
A number of people I know had long Covid. (one was unvaxed at the time of infection, another was vaxed). One LC was lung fibrosis and another was heart problems, that went away after 5 months but involved multiple doctor visits.
Covid is a serious illness and is much worse than a flu. It also increases post-Covid mortality.
Some histrionic people likely overplay Long Covid, but it is nevertheless real.
I also tried to point out that excess mortality is likely mediated by Covid, which at this point is more likely to infect vaxed and boosted people.
I actually know of a few people who got seriously ill and even someone who passed because of COVID, although I think in that case the person may not have been in the best health. For many COVID may be mild but long-term effects may be there, but it may be there with all viruses but we just tended to overlook them.
To GVB I've generally had criticisms of his worsening virus model. I think it's interesting but it didn't seem to actually come to fruition. More importantly such a model can't be explained by Omicron which just came out of the blue and appears to be another possible case of lab escape (maybe?). But rather than account for this anomaly he seemed to argue that his model actually would predict Omicron. Escape? Possibly since everyone both vaccinated and unvaccinated were getting infected. More deadly? That one's up to speculation but again the model has some issues. That also goes with the chicken study that several people have cited that I commented on a few months back where the researchers never followed the development of the virus in chickens but even noted that industrial-raised chickens were naturally seeing a worsening virus and the vaccination was seen as a method to try to curb the virus (I can't recall which virus it was in particular).
But to the excess deaths I personally just find all of the data to be far too messy for my liking so I've chosen not to touch it. It can become very dangerous in reading too deeply into the data and making associations that may not exist. The problem is that there's a ton of uncertainty with these data and to make heads or tails of it may not be properly done without introducing a ton of bias.
What exactly is Long Covid and how is it different than Long Flu or Long Vaccine?
Also we should be careful not to conflate myocarditis in severe cases of Covid which is a RELATIVE rarity mostly affecting the elderly and those with gross comorbidities, and myocarditis occurring in young healthy vaccinated people at little risk of severe COVID
And assuming Long Covid exists, it is likely spike or immune system related, and its origins are likely not limited to COVID but affect the vaccinated as well.
In the absence of credible and trustworthy public health agencies and scientists, we are left to speculate. Thats not a choice we welcome.
Long COVID is inherently ambiguous because it's something that suffers from a lack direct causation the same as the vaccine adverse reactions from the vaccines can. The biggest issue with long COVID is that lack of testing early on meant that people couldn't capture much of this information early on. So you have someone that prevents with symptoms but no indication that they were infected since they didn't get tested and antibody screening wasn't around yet.
But long COVID also comes about at a time when post viral syndrome/post viral sequalae is not really known because scientists has overlooked this possibility for decades. So now what may be a consequence of many viral infections now appears now on account of a novel virus.
Here I'm not conflating virus-induced myocarditis or vaccine-induced myocarditis, but if we are to argue one we don't need to inherently act as if the other does not occur. More importantly, the study linked doesn't even argue that myocarditis is not occurring but it may be lower in prevalence than originally thought, albeit with a bit of statistical manipulation to show that.
Usually the argument is some form of mimicry between the virus and the vaccine. The starting point in looking for adverse reactions should have started at looking at the pathogenicity of the spike and extrapolating from there. We've sort of run tangential by looking at the LNPs and also looking at other aspects of the vaccine which themselves may cause problems but it sidetracks from the real question related to the spike and drawing parallels.
Hi there really sorry for the late reply I’ve never seen messages on Substack that was a really good point to raise 100% agree for me the pasta in the city is from the spike and that is really easy actually to distinguish from the natural illness in as much as in the natural illness we have the combination of the new Cleo captured and the spike protein’s when USA or stain however the media is muddying the waters and attributing and all sorts of illnesses and issues to Coverd which is now extremely mild
So this is a bit of a ramble but it’s nearly 2 in the morning here in the southern hemisphere so my points in response to you are yes number one I think of the mRNA and it’s intense durability in the body number two is the spike generated by that and therefore it’s intense production and durability in the body number three is the pathology course by the spike and number four is the nano particle lipoproteins which are highly toxic and number five are all the unknown marked and identified contaminants which are really serious
The vaxxed want to think they are totally safe and the unvaxxed want to think the same, hence the tendency to all-or-nothing in either direction. The truth is almost always somewhere in the middle, however.
Both groups have somehow brought it upon themselves to think that life is something that can be bartered. We can all escape death in some manner and when we can't we argue that we're just not trying hard enough. I think people on both sides have forgotten some aspect of this inevitability.
This is a great reminder. I've seen some bad outcomes among unvaxxed friends of both death and Long COVID. This disease is no joke, especially the first time you get it, it seems. As you say, figuring this out is in all of our interest.
Fortunately my family got Omicron but even then I developed tonsillitis which is NOT FUN! Many people do poorly with COVID, many do poorly with the vaccines. Understanding why some people tend to do poorly is important in figuring out what can be done or managed.
Yes. We probably got Delta (December 2021) and then Omicron a month later (January 2022). We hit it with Ivermectin, Hydroxychloriquine, Vitamins D, C, Quercitin, Zinc, etc. Only major effect was some loss of taste and smell in my son and me - otherwise no major complications, but we were definitely not well for a week or two and kind of bleh for a few months. Since then we seem to have strong immunity against getting it badly, but we'll have to see.
"Myocarditis can occur in those who are infected with COVID as well as those who get vaccinated. One does not need to concede one argument in order validate another. In fact, one should probably argue that a “safe and effective” vaccine shouldn’t come with any cases of myocarditis, full stop."
We should also be mindful of the fact that the predominant but unsubstantiated "it's worse with the virus" doesn't take over the debate as well. Calculating an accurate myocarditis background rate, as some studies have done (for instance Tuvali et al showed this pre-2021, or Montag & Kampf, as well as Husby et al) showing the rates of myocarditis pre-vaccine and then comparing to post-2021 studies (providing the criteria definition of a "fully vaccinated" individual is accurately transcribed / measured).
Having a balanced, more critial approach is better than either side being overly fearful or critical, stifling the debate one way or ther other.
Playing the game of relativism with such noisy data can cause a lot more difficulties. Sure, maybe the rates of myocarditis may be more severe from the vaccines but the fact that they are even occurring should be sufficient enough to make a point that these vaccines are not "safe".
I think the biggest issue is that this approach of discrediting previous notions on COVID severity for select individuals is an attempt to make information more simplified and palatable. I don't think people need more palatable information, I think people shouldn't be treated as if they lack no critical thinking and must only eat from the trough of information sludge usually put out my mainstream press.
And it's certainly true that both sides have become inherently fearful. I find the arguments over shedding from the vaccine critics to be nothing more than divisive. There's no indication that's occurring but if one where to tell me I can't see my family and friends because they are shedding all over then maybe I'd rather be shed on than to not have any meaningful contact.
First, you have to have a virus, then you can make studies based on that. There's no SARS-COV-2 'virus' to begin with..
Christine Massey has over 200 FOI's from government institutions and universities around the world, and NONE of them isolated the mysterious 'virus' directly from a human sample.
All they do is they mix the human sample with other sources of genetic material, poison those cells and starve them, and when the cells start decaying they release those particular which they call 'viruses' (but really, is cell debris or exosomes).
No one has seen those particles in a sample from a diseased individual, although there should be plenty of them to see - after all, that patient is making other patients sick by spreading the 'virus' .. at least that's what they claim..
First, you have to have a virus, then you can make studies based on that.
There's no SARS-COV-2 'virus' to begin with..
Christine Massey has over 200 FOI's from government institutions and universities around the world, and NONE of them isolated the mysterious 'virus' directly from a human sample.
All they do is they mix the human sample with other sources of genetic material, poison those cells and starve them, and when the cells start decaying they release those particular which they call 'viruses' (but really, is cell debris or exosomes).
No one has seen those particles in a sample from a diseased individual, although there should be plenty of them to see - after all, that patient is making other patients sick by spreading the 'virus' .. at least that's what they claim..
If 'long COVID' exists, it's because of completely different factors. Whatcha out for chronic diseases, fatigue, lack of vitamins, exercise, lack of sun exposure and too much exposure to toxic chemicals (in the food, air and water). Also, EMF exposure shouldn't be discarded.
I come from the perspective that viruses are pathogenic. You can choose to have a different perspective. I am open to other perspectives and people are allowed to have their own thoughts.
However, approaching this post from an inherently antagonistic standpoint isn't going to help your argument. You can make a comment that you don't think this is related to viruses, but if you approach this from the way you did above you're likely going to cause those who may be open-minded to be turned off and defensive.
Make of viruses or not viruses what you will, but you won't win people over with that presentation.
I really don't see how you found my comment offensive. I simply stated there are other reasons for people getting sick, you don't need to blame it on an invisible entity which was never isolated directly from a human sample (see Christine Massey's FOIA's to over 200 universities and institutions around the world).
Also, I don't need to "win" people. I have nothing to gain, there's no Russian agency paying me for saying there is no virus. Yes, some told me that.. no joke.
My intent is to bring a point to those with an open mind. If they're curious they will do their own research, and they'll find out about the work of Stefan Lanka, Dr Kafuman, Dr Sam Bailey, Christine Massey, Eric Coppolino, and many others.
Eventually, they'll come to the same conclusion when they've studied the available information and evidence for 'viruses'.
I love your closing statement:
“Rather than try to find THE ANSWER, we should be reminded that uncertainty and complexity drives much of science and life. It should be embraced rather than discouraged.”
👍
I agree with you. I am a Covid writer. I have a number of people in my life who had Covid and I always ask them how was their experience. In addition, a few of my readers also mentioned their experiences.
The uncle of an acquaintaince died of Covid.
A number of people I know had long Covid. (one was unvaxed at the time of infection, another was vaxed). One LC was lung fibrosis and another was heart problems, that went away after 5 months but involved multiple doctor visits.
Covid is a serious illness and is much worse than a flu. It also increases post-Covid mortality.
Some histrionic people likely overplay Long Covid, but it is nevertheless real.
I also tried to point out that excess mortality is likely mediated by Covid, which at this point is more likely to infect vaxed and boosted people.
https://igorchudov.substack.com/p/is-geerts-prediction-of-a-deadlier
I actually know of a few people who got seriously ill and even someone who passed because of COVID, although I think in that case the person may not have been in the best health. For many COVID may be mild but long-term effects may be there, but it may be there with all viruses but we just tended to overlook them.
To GVB I've generally had criticisms of his worsening virus model. I think it's interesting but it didn't seem to actually come to fruition. More importantly such a model can't be explained by Omicron which just came out of the blue and appears to be another possible case of lab escape (maybe?). But rather than account for this anomaly he seemed to argue that his model actually would predict Omicron. Escape? Possibly since everyone both vaccinated and unvaccinated were getting infected. More deadly? That one's up to speculation but again the model has some issues. That also goes with the chicken study that several people have cited that I commented on a few months back where the researchers never followed the development of the virus in chickens but even noted that industrial-raised chickens were naturally seeing a worsening virus and the vaccination was seen as a method to try to curb the virus (I can't recall which virus it was in particular).
But to the excess deaths I personally just find all of the data to be far too messy for my liking so I've chosen not to touch it. It can become very dangerous in reading too deeply into the data and making associations that may not exist. The problem is that there's a ton of uncertainty with these data and to make heads or tails of it may not be properly done without introducing a ton of bias.
What exactly is Long Covid and how is it different than Long Flu or Long Vaccine?
Also we should be careful not to conflate myocarditis in severe cases of Covid which is a RELATIVE rarity mostly affecting the elderly and those with gross comorbidities, and myocarditis occurring in young healthy vaccinated people at little risk of severe COVID
And assuming Long Covid exists, it is likely spike or immune system related, and its origins are likely not limited to COVID but affect the vaccinated as well.
In the absence of credible and trustworthy public health agencies and scientists, we are left to speculate. Thats not a choice we welcome.
Long COVID is inherently ambiguous because it's something that suffers from a lack direct causation the same as the vaccine adverse reactions from the vaccines can. The biggest issue with long COVID is that lack of testing early on meant that people couldn't capture much of this information early on. So you have someone that prevents with symptoms but no indication that they were infected since they didn't get tested and antibody screening wasn't around yet.
But long COVID also comes about at a time when post viral syndrome/post viral sequalae is not really known because scientists has overlooked this possibility for decades. So now what may be a consequence of many viral infections now appears now on account of a novel virus.
Here I'm not conflating virus-induced myocarditis or vaccine-induced myocarditis, but if we are to argue one we don't need to inherently act as if the other does not occur. More importantly, the study linked doesn't even argue that myocarditis is not occurring but it may be lower in prevalence than originally thought, albeit with a bit of statistical manipulation to show that.
TOTALLY AGREE...This has really troubled me for the longest time people
on our side of the fence have adopted the same black-and-white thinking of the others
the simple right and wrong /good-bad approach
No shades of grey
In FACT we all know ( and may well have personal experience to attest)the illness with the spike is the same thing as the vaccine
IE there IS TOXICITY with BOTH( Remember bio weapon anyone??)
HOWEVER the vaccine is inside our body which is potentially greatly worse
but it’s no not a simple matter and should not be dismissed
Usually the argument is some form of mimicry between the virus and the vaccine. The starting point in looking for adverse reactions should have started at looking at the pathogenicity of the spike and extrapolating from there. We've sort of run tangential by looking at the LNPs and also looking at other aspects of the vaccine which themselves may cause problems but it sidetracks from the real question related to the spike and drawing parallels.
Hi there really sorry for the late reply I’ve never seen messages on Substack that was a really good point to raise 100% agree for me the pasta in the city is from the spike and that is really easy actually to distinguish from the natural illness in as much as in the natural illness we have the combination of the new Cleo captured and the spike protein’s when USA or stain however the media is muddying the waters and attributing and all sorts of illnesses and issues to Coverd which is now extremely mild
So this is a bit of a ramble but it’s nearly 2 in the morning here in the southern hemisphere so my points in response to you are yes number one I think of the mRNA and it’s intense durability in the body number two is the spike generated by that and therefore it’s intense production and durability in the body number three is the pathology course by the spike and number four is the nano particle lipoproteins which are highly toxic and number five are all the unknown marked and identified contaminants which are really serious
The vaxxed want to think they are totally safe and the unvaxxed want to think the same, hence the tendency to all-or-nothing in either direction. The truth is almost always somewhere in the middle, however.
Both groups have somehow brought it upon themselves to think that life is something that can be bartered. We can all escape death in some manner and when we can't we argue that we're just not trying hard enough. I think people on both sides have forgotten some aspect of this inevitability.
This is a great reminder. I've seen some bad outcomes among unvaxxed friends of both death and Long COVID. This disease is no joke, especially the first time you get it, it seems. As you say, figuring this out is in all of our interest.
Fortunately my family got Omicron but even then I developed tonsillitis which is NOT FUN! Many people do poorly with COVID, many do poorly with the vaccines. Understanding why some people tend to do poorly is important in figuring out what can be done or managed.
Yes. We probably got Delta (December 2021) and then Omicron a month later (January 2022). We hit it with Ivermectin, Hydroxychloriquine, Vitamins D, C, Quercitin, Zinc, etc. Only major effect was some loss of taste and smell in my son and me - otherwise no major complications, but we were definitely not well for a week or two and kind of bleh for a few months. Since then we seem to have strong immunity against getting it badly, but we'll have to see.
Totally agree here. As you say:
"Myocarditis can occur in those who are infected with COVID as well as those who get vaccinated. One does not need to concede one argument in order validate another. In fact, one should probably argue that a “safe and effective” vaccine shouldn’t come with any cases of myocarditis, full stop."
We should also be mindful of the fact that the predominant but unsubstantiated "it's worse with the virus" doesn't take over the debate as well. Calculating an accurate myocarditis background rate, as some studies have done (for instance Tuvali et al showed this pre-2021, or Montag & Kampf, as well as Husby et al) showing the rates of myocarditis pre-vaccine and then comparing to post-2021 studies (providing the criteria definition of a "fully vaccinated" individual is accurately transcribed / measured).
Having a balanced, more critial approach is better than either side being overly fearful or critical, stifling the debate one way or ther other.
Playing the game of relativism with such noisy data can cause a lot more difficulties. Sure, maybe the rates of myocarditis may be more severe from the vaccines but the fact that they are even occurring should be sufficient enough to make a point that these vaccines are not "safe".
I think the biggest issue is that this approach of discrediting previous notions on COVID severity for select individuals is an attempt to make information more simplified and palatable. I don't think people need more palatable information, I think people shouldn't be treated as if they lack no critical thinking and must only eat from the trough of information sludge usually put out my mainstream press.
And it's certainly true that both sides have become inherently fearful. I find the arguments over shedding from the vaccine critics to be nothing more than divisive. There's no indication that's occurring but if one where to tell me I can't see my family and friends because they are shedding all over then maybe I'd rather be shed on than to not have any meaningful contact.
First, you have to have a virus, then you can make studies based on that. There's no SARS-COV-2 'virus' to begin with..
Christine Massey has over 200 FOI's from government institutions and universities around the world, and NONE of them isolated the mysterious 'virus' directly from a human sample.
All they do is they mix the human sample with other sources of genetic material, poison those cells and starve them, and when the cells start decaying they release those particular which they call 'viruses' (but really, is cell debris or exosomes).
No one has seen those particles in a sample from a diseased individual, although there should be plenty of them to see - after all, that patient is making other patients sick by spreading the 'virus' .. at least that's what they claim..
https://christinemasseyfois.substack.com/
First, you have to have a virus, then you can make studies based on that.
There's no SARS-COV-2 'virus' to begin with..
Christine Massey has over 200 FOI's from government institutions and universities around the world, and NONE of them isolated the mysterious 'virus' directly from a human sample.
All they do is they mix the human sample with other sources of genetic material, poison those cells and starve them, and when the cells start decaying they release those particular which they call 'viruses' (but really, is cell debris or exosomes).
No one has seen those particles in a sample from a diseased individual, although there should be plenty of them to see - after all, that patient is making other patients sick by spreading the 'virus' .. at least that's what they claim..
https://christinemasseyfois.substack.com/
There's no damn 'virus'.
If 'long COVID' exists, it's because of completely different factors. Whatcha out for chronic diseases, fatigue, lack of vitamins, exercise, lack of sun exposure and too much exposure to toxic chemicals (in the food, air and water). Also, EMF exposure shouldn't be discarded.
Do this, and there's no more "long COVID"..
I come from the perspective that viruses are pathogenic. You can choose to have a different perspective. I am open to other perspectives and people are allowed to have their own thoughts.
However, approaching this post from an inherently antagonistic standpoint isn't going to help your argument. You can make a comment that you don't think this is related to viruses, but if you approach this from the way you did above you're likely going to cause those who may be open-minded to be turned off and defensive.
Make of viruses or not viruses what you will, but you won't win people over with that presentation.
I really don't see how you found my comment offensive. I simply stated there are other reasons for people getting sick, you don't need to blame it on an invisible entity which was never isolated directly from a human sample (see Christine Massey's FOIA's to over 200 universities and institutions around the world).
Also, I don't need to "win" people. I have nothing to gain, there's no Russian agency paying me for saying there is no virus. Yes, some told me that.. no joke.
My intent is to bring a point to those with an open mind. If they're curious they will do their own research, and they'll find out about the work of Stefan Lanka, Dr Kafuman, Dr Sam Bailey, Christine Massey, Eric Coppolino, and many others.
Eventually, they'll come to the same conclusion when they've studied the available information and evidence for 'viruses'.